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by garyfreedman from Washington, DC

Last Post 204 days, 11 hours Ago


Roe should be overturned because it's bad law. A fundamental right or liberty should be grounded in something more substantial than a chimerical "penumbra of rights" flowing from a prior court decision (Griswold). Basically, what the court did in Roe was to say that women have a fundamental right to abortion "because we say so," that is because we said in Griswold that reproductive rights fall under a right to privacy that we "discovered." The constitution can be pulled and stretched only so far before it becomes a sham, a house of cards created by the Court. That's not constitutional law, that's "Alice in Wonderland."

Women should, however, have access to abortion. But the legal basis needs to be found in some other legal principles or be created by the legislature. Perhaps a constitutional amendment needs to be passed. But, of course, that probably will not happen. Yet, if women want a secure right to abortion they may well have to fight for a constitutional amendment, as they did early in the last century to obtain the right to vote under the 19th amendment.

There's a tangential issue relating to the abortion debate that has always intrigued me, though I have never heard any discussion of it. There is an interesting symbolic relationship between a pregnant woman and a federal republic such as the US. That is to say, a symbolic relationship between the state of pregnancy and the issue of states rights versus federal supremacy.

The pregnant woman is symbolically analogous to the federal government, which has supremacy over and a duty of protection to the individual states. The pregnant woman harbors and protects the fetus. Put another way, the mother stands in symbolic relation to the federal government, just as the fetus (or fetuses) stands in symbolic relation to the individual, subservient states.

Conservatives typically champion the power of the states against the encroachment of the federal government. While liberals typically espouse the supremacy of the federal government over the states. In parallel fashion, conservatives typically oppose abortion, promoting the unborn fetus's right to life. While liberals typically favor abortion, espousing the power of the mother over any supposed rights of the fetus.

Federal supremacy = a mother's right to choose

States rights = the unborn fetus's right to life

I wonder to what extent this symbolism is an unconscious factor in the passions and occasional irrationality that the abortion issue arouses in people.
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beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 24, 2008 | 2:40 PM

this subject is basically an easy one to understand ...some find the life of a child (born-unborn) to be unique, special ...and... some live comfortably with little thought to taking a child's life...

what's not understood is people comfortable with taking a child's life are all to often the same who abhore and protest 'capital punishment' ...that I've never been able to reconcile in my mind...

AveMaria22 read my blog
Jan 24, 2008 | 5:19 PM

To both of you: I find it interesting that both of you are males and cannot become pregnant. Pregnancy is NOT legislated...abortion should not be legislated either. As a woman, if I become pregnant due to whatever reason, the choice for an abortion rests with me, my physician, and my feelings about my God. You, as a male should not be involved in my decision unless I involve you. Whether or not you like it, the birth of a child, if you are a responsible individual, completely consumes and changes one's life. If I am not prepared emotionally and financially, to commit the next 21 years to a child, it must be the woman's decision to have an abortion. Often, men like to whip out the testosterone and demand a say in the woman's fate and any child's fate. In those cases I've noted that some grandmother ends up raising a child and bearing a burden not her own. The child ends up at the bottom of the economic ladder who struggling without a good mother OR a good father. Without love, and a lifetime commitment from both parents, it is better to lose it when it is the size of a pea and try later when both are prepared for parenthood. Human right gives me the right to control my body. I don't need to change the Constitution to do that for me. Abortion has been made into a political football and I cannot understand that. Pregnancy, wanted or unwanted, is simply a personal issue. It's none of you boys business.

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 24, 2008 | 5:50 PM

...neat you get a guy's cooperation in creating a pregancy but that's that's the limit of who decides what ...you take the cake babe and it's the best illustration I can imagine of the kind of women that shape and drive the controversy surrounding this issue ...real class value humans!! ...by the way is that god you refer to have the same values of respect for life?? ..."WANTED" or "UNWANTED" ...your choice of words gives us a glimpse of the warmth a child can expect from you ...

s63hunter
Jan 24, 2008 | 6:31 PM

Moral issues do not belong in the hands of our Government. The last time I checked, we are a free country and no one is going to tell me that if I get raped that I have to keep the child. I would not want to be constantly reminded every time that I looked at my child of that terrible time when a man forced himself on me.

s63hunter
Jan 24, 2008 | 6:35 PM

AveMaria22: I love your comment! It's nice to know that some other females feel the same way that I do. Guys: You need to relize that if a woman gets pregnant by a jerk that raped her, THEY DON'T WANT THE CHILD! I also agree with AveMaria22 that it is none of your business if we have an abortion. If you guys want to, then try being a female and see how society treats you!

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 24, 2008 | 8:46 PM

...now it's a love fest of the alternative moral authority...lovely, warm personalities ladies...thanks for reminding us of your heartfelt thoughts...you share with us the comparative practice of 'puttin down' a dog cause it doesn;t fit your lifestyle...your disposition on the subject relys on the 'me' factor to validate it...

garyfreedman read my blog
Jan 25, 2008 | 12:03 PM

all the comments missed the point of my blog post. I happen to favor a woman's right to choose abortion. It's the legal basis for that right that I find questionable.

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 25, 2008 | 1:23 PM

…no, you be discounting my point of view "gary" to secure a safe middle of the road specifically unspecific role

...I don't support abortion ...somethin' basically tasteless and revolting killing a child for 'convenience sake'... That comes from a person that’s not of the ranks of a believer with devout, conventional religious convictions however I do have values that accept the existence of a higher power, so to speak…

...wanted/unwanted were the clinically, coldly calculated buzz words that were used in support of unrestrained abortion practice that illustrates the contrast of views ...it's my responsibility to voice my values on the subject and leave it up to others to consider... I believe the public at large's position has been established to be similar to mine but in an earlier decision the court disagrees with the collective wisdom of those people... over the years it seems the will of the majority has been compromised by the values of a minority...

...the pro abortion faction has become unhinged over the prospect the court, if called upon to revisit the issue again, may be composed now of judiciary that embraces respect for innocent life and has the capacity to distinguish between abortion practices for convenience - and - abortion that arises over a life threatening physical medical problem (not a subjective question of inconvenience to personal lifestyle under the cloak of saying it’s the BS argument of preserving the delicate stability of one’s mental state of mind) ...

Y3Y3 read my blog view my photos
Jan 26, 2008 | 10:22 AM

The word "NO" isn't in your vocabulary? You must be pretty low on the intellectual and evolutionary food chain to be unable to control yourself. Emotionally driven simpletons....
A simpleton that doesn't understand the impact of KILLING A BABY. A simpleton that is too shallow to think, but blathers on about how its a "Right" for a womanto choose. SHOW ME THE WORDS! They sure aren't in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

garyfreedman read my blog
Jan 26, 2008 | 12:04 PM

I think you people are all simpletons, morons, idiots, or imbeciles. Take your pick.

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 26, 2008 | 12:22 PM

...wow, the lord has spoken!!!!

Grandad1 read my blog view my photos
Jan 27, 2008 | 6:08 PM

Abortion is murder. DNA proves the baby is a different person than the mother. No one has the right to kill another person.

Ava; lose it when it is the size of a pea?
Is "it" a pea in your mind? I guess so. I can assure it is not in God's Word. Another blog where you associate the subjects discussed with "boys"reference in your answer. What is up with you?

garyfreedman; How can these responses be reasons for your name calling? Take your pick!

Gooberpug read my blog view my photos
Jan 28, 2008 | 10:31 AM

As a woman, I probably would never have had an abortion unless the child was conceived from the act of rape. No woman should be forced to have a child that was conceived out of violence. But that being said, I also think that its up to each individual to choose what they do with their bodies. I also think that what that person chooses to do is between them and their own beliefs. Frankly, I think to many people want to tell others how and what to do with their lives, but wouldn't want the same done to them.

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 28, 2008 | 11:22 AM

not tryin' to tell anyone how / what to do with there lives "goober" ...but I am concerned about the child ...are you then of the position a baby doesn't deserve someone defending their life should the mother choose to decide it's inconvenient so lets deny that life, denying that life the same protection yours and my mother gave us??? ...denying a life conceived from the act of rape is then by your convictions a price the child has to pay because they're fathered by a detestable, despised act that contributed to it’s life ...that's deciding someone's life isn't it??? ...you're doomin' a life not because of what that life did to offend you but because of what the fathering party did that offends you ...no argument from me that a child carried to full term involves significant expense and temporary physical discomfort but is that reason for us to cooperate in condoning denial of life to that child??? ...

garyfreedman read my blog
Jan 28, 2008 | 12:32 PM

My argument is a legal argument. Nobody has addressed the central idea that I expound.

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 28, 2008 | 4:04 PM

Well “Gary” you get out all over the board in tryin’ to create an opinion and a thought for discussion so this may or may not be a response that meets with your approval of how you imagined your blog would go but I‘ll give it a final try…first I’m curious what’s your view of the term “symbolism” means ??? …a position that an abortion is an overly sensitive attitude toward taking a baby’s life found largely among conservatives?? …like that‘s some unsophisticated thing to be …and that it instead should deal only with supporting a female citizen’s attraction to the choice of denying a baby’s right to life for what ever reason… in that attitude there’s something base and tasteless…

While my expectation lies in the faith of the state to protect my constitutional rights, I rely on the federal government to reexamine whether a state decision conforms to constitutional protections each state in the republic has agreed to provide…just as in life, I’ve seen over the years our courts view of what we agree the constitution says we have a right to do and be protected in doing can vary according to the political / social values of those sittin’ behind the bench at a given time and place …the constitution is a unique document but it seems, in my view, the court, over the years, has leaned to protecting an individual attitude at the expense of the values of the majority …my view of the Constitution is that it’s a bridge for people to find legal support of majority values …there’s an organization I understand that embraces pedophilia as a normal sexual orientation ( not aberration) and

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 28, 2008 | 4:04 PM

(continued) right to practice …I mean give me a break!!! …these pukes want to establish the right enabling them to prey on youth…

Pro abortionists look upon Roe v Wade as all encompassing while I feel it intended to allow abortion to protect the compromise of one life to another …I suppose legal mumbo jumbo can be said to create a right first to the female no matter what …I don’t feel Roe v Wade was created to apply to anything other than medical complications and give support to the parent‘(s) decision of who’s life will be compromised, be it the mother or the baby ….through the years since, challenges have succeeded in limiting abortion and that raises the ire of those who subscribe to the broad view …a high court should fall, I feel, to standing in the way of allowing an innocent baby’s life to be taken for any other reason…

…the delicate flower of womanhood violated is a argument made in the case of rape being a justification for not protecting a baby’s life and I consider that an exploitation of the symbolism in the qualities of virginity and pureness ( that doesn‘t seem to be an issue with several of our bloggers though) …the argument is offered the female life, not the baby’s, has a greater standing in this world, not an equal one, reeks of selfishness, shallowness and an attitude of no redeeming human values / qualities toward who gets life and who doesn‘t - I look on this stand as one of justness not “symbolism“…the argument the baby’s life is subordinate to the will, attitude change, whim and like of the female - tell me that‘s not a sound question of justn

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 28, 2008 | 4:08 PM

(continued) justness …the responsibility to give the child’s life a chance is denied cause when, on second thought, the female decides it’s an inconvenience to continue to provide protection of that child’s life, irregardless of the male’s cooperation to fulfill hopes and expectations they both planned before the female had a change of heart - I don‘t see any “symbolism“ there, just basic human concern for justice toward all involved …the occasion arises where the attraction to an abortion is nothing short of a vengeful attitude taken by the female for some perceived ill will of the male and a way to get even - how is prevention of that viewed as “symbolism“…

It goes on and other issues of life could be legitimately factored into the argument to defend protection of life …in combat taking a life goes contrary to values that protection of life is fundamental but I see it as defensible because of the threat that exists to one’s life - a case of theirs or mine …much in the same thought a threat to a woman’s life is the regrettable decision to preserve one life and compromise the other …that‘s what for lack of another expression is society‘s definition of an acceptale abortion procedure …otherwise a child has committed no crime, yet it has to pay with it’s life, is not an acceptable human quality - tell me it‘s not something to stop and think about …

Gooberpug read my blog view my photos
Jan 28, 2008 | 5:23 PM

BB, I've stated my thoughts on this issue and I respect your's as well. But thats as much as a discussion you will get out of me on this. In my opinion, its a personal decision. Not one that I always agree with, but one that I won't project my views onto someone else simply because I don't agree with their reasons behind it.

beagle_buddy read my blog view my photos
Jan 28, 2008 | 5:56 PM

and not tryin' to project my views on someone else either ...I assumed the blog was posted to open a discussion and entertain learnin' the range of views there is on the issue "goober"...

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garyfreedman

I am a huge Brian Bolter fan. What else is there to say?

Member Since: 11/29/2007